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Nutmeg Nation with Carlene
Nutmeg Nation is a show for anyone wanting to learn more about Grenada. It is a show that educates Grenadians on the issues they are facing everyday. Issues that affect them and the rest of the world. Life, relationships, family, work and all the relationships we have with people who are in our direct circle. What are people talking about in Grenada? What is the culture like? This is one of the main things we discuss on the show, and I hope you will join us on this new adventure with Nutmeg Nation.
Nutmeg Nation with Carlene
Jab Jab Culture with Kervin Thomas
What inspires a man to uncover the stories of others? Our special guest, Kervin Thomas, founder of Traveling Mako, reveals how his curiosity and love for storytelling led to the creation of his vibrant brand. Join us as we explore the meaning behind "Mako" and how Kervin’s journey has evolved, especially during the challenging times of COVID-19. We also celebrate the resourcefulness and ingenuity of Grenadians, illustrated through delightful anecdotes like the creation of sorrel jelly from leftover ingredients. This conversation is a tribute to the resilience and creativity that define the Grenadian spirit.
Transport yourself to the sun-soaked memories of childhood in Grenada, where music, art, and family traditions shaped our lives. Kervin and I reminisce about the influence of our parents on our musical tastes and the lasting impact of iconic soca artists. From school days filled with tree-climbing adventures to savoring local snacks, we paint a vivid picture of the simple joys of island life. We also reflect on how different but complementary experiences of growing up in rural versus urban Grenada contribute to the rich tapestry of our culture.
Our journey wouldn't be complete without celebrating Grenada's iconic Carnival, or Spice Mass, and the cultural phenomenon of Jab Jab. Kervin shares his insights on the evolution of traditional costumes and the symbolic power behind the Jab Jab culture. We delve into the ecstatic energy of Carnival events like Monday Night Mass, which honors our heritage with an organized and electrifying celebration. Listen as we discuss the contributions of notable Grenadian artists and the humor and creativity displayed during events like Fancy Mas and Old Mas, capturing why Grenada remains a cherished destination for all. Don't miss out on this vibrant and heartfelt exploration of Grenadian culture and resilience.
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Welcome to Nutmeg Nation with Carlene Humphrey.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Carlene and this is Nutmeg Nation. I have with me a fellow Grenadian.
Speaker 3:Oh, greetings to the world, you know.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it's a small world. You know what I mean. But let's do our introduction. His name is Kervin Thomas. He is Grenadian. He's also a digital content creator, a video editor. He's well-versed in a couple of things. Well, I mean, you can tell me more in detail what Traveling Mako means? I know from what you said traveling through people's stories. Right, that's your story.
Speaker 3:So it's actually funny. The name came when I really started to like dive deep into audio production and video production and stuff. And I was looking for a name. And I spoke to one of my best friends from since I was young Samuel or Gilvey and I was like, yeah, I'm looking for a name for for a company. And he's like, okay, well, what are you? And I was like, yeah, I'm looking for a name for a company. And he's like, okay, well, what are you thinking?
Speaker 3:I was like, well, you know, we do a lot of travels. I want to vlog. You know, I want to capture when my wife and I travel and stuff. And I want something that has to do with Grenada. You know, something inherently Caribbean, inherently Grenadian. And he was like, well, why are you doing something like Mako? I was like, ah, I was like traveling Mako. And I was like that doesn't sound too professional. And he's like it doesn't have to sound professional. It encapsulates everything I want to do.
Speaker 3:So that's how traveling Mako came to be. It's actually a conversation starter Because people is like you know what's Mako? Well, most Americans will say Mako. It's like what's Mako? I was like no, it's Mako. Like what's that? I was like it's somebody that's always in people's business.
Speaker 3:So when I travel I would meet people and like ask them you know, how'd you get here? Like what brought you here? And you know, it really kind of fit in with the traveling Mako stuff. So when I actually started initially, I would interview people that was not originally from the Rockford area that's where I currently live now and I would ask them like you know, what brought you to Rockford and stuff. So that's what got me into not really podcasting, but it was just like interviews where people could talk about themselves and share their journey and stuff. Because I'm always interested in people's journey. And that kind of got shut down with COVID and then it just moved into more of a background kind of work. So I would have right. Currently I help other businesses that get a podcast started, get their social media going and stuff. So I do more of the background work than actually the front end stuff. So that's this is where I'm more comfortable in the shadows. So that's.
Speaker 2:This is where I'm more comfortable in the shadows. No-transcript. So, yeah, it's like people back home and say why are you so nosy?
Speaker 3:I don't know the people business. They use that Mako.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but the thing is in the Caribbean, people are always in your business.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:Grenada is a small island, right, and I see that you're wearing a t-shirt representing yes. So, um, speaking of grenada, and actually let's start from the beginning, because you're talking about the name of your brand- right and someone helped you create your brand and someone helped me too.
Speaker 2:So nice, not magnation. Um, I'm pretty sure there's. It's been used other places or whatever. But someone said to me this is a colleague, his name is Phil, and I met him when I was at Humber college when I was studying radio, and I always had this idea for this podcast. It just took COVID to kind of create the idea and streamline and and think, do all the research. You know what I mean. And he's the one that was like not magnation, like like what's on the flag.
Speaker 2:I'm like not meg, and he's like not magnation, I'm like that's a good name yeah you know what I mean, because I I'm not good with names, but I was like I like that because it is. It encompasses what grenade is all about. It's a small community of people 100,000 people but we're a nation and I feel like a lot of people from Grenada are so humble they really are yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, you know we don't have all the resources that bigger countries have, but you know, we know how to be resilient, we know how to use the resources that we have in every capacity. Let me give you a story. So I found sorrel in a supermarket and I decided I would make sorrel. And after I got done making the sorrel, I still had the stuff in the pot.
Speaker 3:So I remember my mom when I was younger. She would use that and cook it down with sugar and make jelly, but most people would just throw it away. You know, but we, because of you know, trying to use everything that we had to max capacity. Then we just knew how to make stuff out of everything that we have so that we're not wasteful. So, yeah, that just you know. Yeah, grenadians are a very resourceful people. We make it anyway.
Speaker 2:Yes, we do. We do what we can. I guess it makes us resilient. I feel like even just getting here, you know what I mean. Like I think you said you're interested in people's stories and I think you're really good at telling stories too, you know what I mean. You have your story to tell and through your stories and through your journey it probably helps enlighten others. Like even the story like it's not even like a, it's not like a big story yet to tell, but it's something small, like sorrow. But I'm pretty sure if someone's from the Caribbean and they don't even have to be from Grenada they could be from Jamaica, because Jamaicans make sorrel too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Trinidad you know they're like thinking about sorrel like that, and I'm like wait a minute, I didn't know you could make sorrel like. Eat jelly with sorrel, you know what I mean. Or maybe you could even make a nice flavored snow cone too. You know what I mean. Put some sorrel on top of that, right.
Speaker 3:It's just knowing, like I don't know. It's like we have this innate ability to to know what to use and when to use it. You know, it's like you cook and it's like it misses something and I just just put a little this in it and then when you put out, it's like boom, you know the meal, it just fire, you know, you know, yeah, yeah, so this thing you talk a little bit about your background and how your parents are musicians, but you don't necessarily have that music background because you're talking about your mom making sorrow right, and so when we talk about stories like if I always say this, I'm never going to stop saying it, it's like it's not where you're going, it's where you came from, and where you came from kind of helped you become who you are, right.
Speaker 2:And so why do you think you never really followed in their path?
Speaker 3:Because I can't sing. Oh, so they're singers.
Speaker 2:Okay, I thought they played like instruments, like what did your mom do? Your mom was a singer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my mom sings. My dad is a guitarist, he plays a guitar things. My dad is a guitarist, he plays the guitar and he used to be a calypso and big time calypso back in the 90s and OK tell me who this is.
Speaker 2:His name was Upgrader.
Speaker 3:A lot of, a lot of during the time when I was in school and stuff like that was my nickname To this day some people still meet me and call me Upgrader but he had this one song back in like 95, 96. It's like give them cat, they go talk. Oh, it's cat they want. Give them cat, they go talk. Yeah, so that just like followed me.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, I hated it. Oh no, and you know what? With Calypso, it's like all you need is two words. Yeah, you don't want to jump the line. Know what with with? With calypso, it's like all you need is two words. Yeah, you know, and you can just put a song together. You know, I'm like how many words are? You always listen to the words and you're like how many words did they put together to create this song? Like even war donkey. Well, you know, yeah, you know, but yeah, you know what you don't? You said you can't sing.
Speaker 3:No, I don't sing.
Speaker 2:No, but you are given the gift from them in a way, because without the engineer, without the editor, like without the background, you don't really have like it takes a lot. Like if you look at a musician, they have a, they have people in the background making them sound good, like you're the person that helps create the sound. You know what I mean, whether it's from the beginning, when they are writing the lyrics or you're singing or you're helping, you know, create the album, produce the album. Like the background stuff. I mean it doesn't get as much recognition as it does all the time, but those things are important, like in film and in life and in music. It's like who wrote the lyrics to the song or who Like? I mean you know what I mean. It's like those lyrics, like you know what I mean, did he like? It's just like did, did your dad, mr Upgrader, write the lyrics to that song or did somebody else just put it together? You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:He wrote it. Let me blow your mind a little bit, a little bit more, so you remember the song um the big truck come and let it come. The big truck come and let it come from around 20 oh, 2015, 2016 okay okay, uh, bobby, says my uncle what's the oh?
Speaker 2:so everyone's thomas, or?
Speaker 3:no, no, uh, so wait a minute. There's a thomas? No, no, wait a minute.
Speaker 2:There's a Thomas I met, but I don't know if you guys are related, james, me, is it? I mean there's a lot of Thomas, right? Yeah, there are a lot, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Bowen. On my mother's side it's a Bowen. So Bowen I'm related to On my dad's side is Thomas O'Geese. So I'm related to my dad's side is Thomas O'Geese. So I'm actually Blackadan is my cousin Like you know how people say yeah, I'm a cousin. Now Blackadan is actually my cousin, cousin Like my father, nephew, my aunt's son. You know, black two dollar bread. I'm a cousin. So music running my family. You know music, music and art run in my family. I just took a different route with it. I used to like writing. When I was growing up. I loved writing dancehall music, hip hop. Never wrote a calypso, never wrote soca. They wanted me to do it. When I was in school, because I'm a dad, my mom, who was a strong Christian woman, was like you are not getting into Calypso and Soka. I was like, ok, cool, and I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2:You're such a good son. You listen to your mom. You're like no, I'm going to write you weren't a rebel, you weren't like.
Speaker 3:Nah, I'm not listening to her, I'm going to write some lyrics, you know. What's funny is actually I went to school with a lot of the well-established, well soca artists. Now, like Letanati, I went to school with Letanati.
Speaker 2:So question we didn't talk about this, but where are you now? You are not in Grenada, you are obviously in the the us and I'm here in canada right I'm in uh in rockford, illinois.
Speaker 3:That's just outside chicago. They went to, went to school in gbss, so oh my goodness, harani james went to gbss.
Speaker 2:A lot of people went there, you know yeah yeah, big up lindon, victor for getting that yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:It says the Moragi spirit, as we all call it. You know what I mean. Yeah, big them, big them, man, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So how old were you when you left Grenada?
Speaker 3:I left Grenada when I was 29, actually.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay. Okay, you know, the accent didn't leave you.
Speaker 3:It's still there. I tell people I come here, I come here too old for the accent to leave me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, but it's. I love it, it's yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm conforming to the US accent. I will not. I refuse. I would talk bad about Americans right in their face and they wouldn't understand what I'm saying. Why would I want to give that up?
Speaker 2:though, yeah, yeah, tell me why I go give that up. Oh, my goodness, but you left when you were 29. I left granada when I was six, so I am, I'm canadian. I tell people, you know, like here it's they still, you know, because you're caribbean or it's all about where you were born, or where you grew up, or or where your parents were born, right?
Speaker 3:so I just tell people I was like what, what makes you caribbean or grenadian or whatever is? If you used to run through the cocoa when it was little, if it didn't used to oh, it didn't used to do that, then nah, you can't you can't see.
Speaker 2:Wow, oh my goodness, you're bringing it back.
Speaker 3:I love it, yeah dog and and climbing mango tree and skin of tree and them kind of thing. So it's like you can't talk about the. You know you can't talk about that, so you know.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, yes, yeah, you're bringing it back. You know what? I don't remember a lot, but I do remember. I do remember Tamarind ball tree, I don't know Like running through the. I remember, yeah, climbing the tree, causing trouble. I was a troublemaker from time and I remember like recess or what do they call it back home, but break time Same thing, right. So, anyways, you know how you get money for your bus fare and for your snack, right, and there were some good snacks. Let me tell you Curvin.
Speaker 3:One hundred percent.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, One time, Curvin, you know what? I didn't even save my bus fare. I used all my money on my recess snack and I didn't have money to get home. Wow, I got so much of it I had to ask. I don't know what. I think I had to ask. I don't remember who. I was so young I think I was like I was five or six and I had to ask for help to get home.
Speaker 3:So yeah, Nah, I had to ask for help to get home.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I probably would have to sell something or do something to get back the money to make it home. But I was too young, I didn't even know what I was going to do. I was like they gave me the bus fare, but I think I got in trouble. When I got home they're like why did you spend your? We gave you the money for both. You know such a troublemaker, but yeah, you know, and so you used to climb trees. Huh yeah, 100% man.
Speaker 3:I used to especially them cashew tree on them that never tree on them. I used to climb to the top and the breeze go be swaying. I just on top of it, eating the, eating the cashew hunting, yeah.
Speaker 2:You're talking as if that was yesterday. You know those are fun memories.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, I grew up in the Bocas, st Paul, so that is just before library. So big up Dash Another GBHS fan for winning the Soka Monarch this year. Big up, big up, big up library.
Speaker 2:All right, all right. All right, all right, all right. Yes, so I haven't met anyone from your parish, I'm from grad. Like I grew up in granite, my mom, my grandmother's house is by the foliage, close to where the old texaco gas station used to be yeah, yeah yeah, so, yeah, so tell. For those who don't know about your parish, tell them, tell them, you know.
Speaker 3:I grew up more in the bush. You grew up on a nice road and thing. I grew up with a bunch of pothole and you had to walk with two pair of shoes. You know, want to get through the road and then want to change when you reach up by the main road.
Speaker 2:Tell me, why do people do that? I never. I was like why, yeah, because road. Tell me, why do people do that? I never I was like why yeah? Why, guys? Because your shoes are going to get ruined or what From school you didn't want to ruin your school shoes.
Speaker 3:I didn't want to ruin that. Yeah, when they go and tell me how to flex, you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, convent girl and them. High school girl and them. You know it was a bunch of potholes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know there's more traffic now in Grenada.
Speaker 3:I haven't been in.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Terrible, terrible, terrible. Once you touch on top Lotus Lane, once you touch up there, you have traffic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like I'm already in Grenada just talking to you.
Speaker 1:You're listening to Nutmeg Nation with Carlene Humphrey. Listen, learn and be a part of Grenada.
Speaker 2:I'm Carlene and this is NotMagnation. I'm talking to Curvin Thomas, a real green studiboon. You know he's not. Yes, yes, and you know you're in Illinois. Well, actually you said Rockford, rockford. I know there's Rockford in New York too.
Speaker 2:Anyways, rockford, I know there's Rockford, New York too. Anyways, Rockford, and yeah, I saw that video that you did on that and it's interesting because that's what you're known for as someone who is behind the scenes and does a lot of, you know, video editing. I mean, it takes a certain skill to do that. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:That was a decent project. I visited back home in 2020. And while I was there, I knew what I wanted to do, so I just took a day and drove around the island Went to Granite Hang, went to Annandale, went to BBC Beach, a lesser known beach in Grenada, more quiet, the water is calmer. It's really good for kids because the water is a lot shallower than Grand Andes. You know, grand Andes get all the praise and stuff, but BBC is the beach to go to, so the locals go.
Speaker 2:You know what. You're right. I have to say, like I haven't been to BBC, Wait a minute. Elaborate what BBC stands for. Is it the shore form?
Speaker 3:Honestly, yes, I don't. I don't know what I mean. Yeah, most locals don't know what I mean. It's just BBC Beach, yeah.
Speaker 2:But where's BBC Beach? What is it close to? Because I know Bathway Beach, I know Grand.
Speaker 3:Anse, but Bathway Beach. You don't want to bring children to Bathway Beach unless you want to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the waves are really strong. If you're listening for the first time and you haven't been to Grenada and like Kervin was saying, grand Anse is always the number one beach that gets mentioned you know because it's in the city you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And some people, when they're visiting Grenada for the first time, they're most likely going to go to the city park, you know, and go to the Esplanade Mall and do things in town, versus going to the country. Because, kervin, I got to tell you, you know, you have a story to tell. I have a story to tell too, because, kirvan, I got to tell you, you know, you have a story to tell. I have a story to tell too. So last time I was in Grenada, we were having a reunion and the reunion started off in the country and there's just something about the road all the way up to Grenville. It's just. I can never get used to it. The winding road, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:It does something to my stomach.
Speaker 3:Let me tell you, because my sister will laugh no-transcript granada's roads and stuff, so yeah yeah, I just can't I I if I yeah bbc beach is actually close to grand and so okay, is it close to the airport? No. So when you're going to let's say you're going to Grand and Beach, you just continue driving straight up the hill by where Flamboyant used to be I think they're renovating it now Down to where Fantasia 2001 is and that beach right there is BBC Beach. It's so quiet, it's right between quarantine point, so that little cove is just a really nice peaceful beach. That's where most Grenadians go, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:I know yeah.
Speaker 3:We go to Grand Isle. We typically go to BBC Channel, some Fontenoy Beach and other beaches on the island.
Speaker 2:There's so many nice beaches that you know. I even say to my aunt I'm like Auntie Jo, how come you never take me to Magazine Beach? I don't understand. Work because I'm so close when I'm in Grenada and I'm visiting. My grandmother's house is so close to Grand Isle Beach, so obviously I'm always going there. But Grenada has other nice beaches that should get a little bit more recognition. You know what I mean. Like, next time you go down, maybe that should be another thing that you share. You know That'd be cool, yeah.
Speaker 3:Because we have four different types of beaches. I think we have the white sand beach, pink sand, volcanic beach and rock. Yeah, I think we have four. So, depending on the side of the island that you go, that you're on, you could hit, I know, on the on the western side by, like san marco area, that's black sandy beach, as a volcanic beach is. The southern side, have the, the white and the pink and there's some on the northern side that has the rock.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, no yeah, there's, there's a lot to do, but I mean, obviously there's always the top 10 and the most recognized and you know, at least we're, we're on the list of places to go and like a lot of tourists like grenada because it's peaceful, the people are nice, they're friendly, you know, and obviously Curvin Thomas is. Grenadian right. I'm Grenadian. That's why we're here, that's why we're talking and we're going to do a segue a little bit before we get back to you. But tonight is.
Speaker 2:Monday night carnival and it's Monday night, mass and Curvin, because you're a local and you know everything about Carnival season. You know Grenada Spice Mass has picked up. I think it's got a bigger vibe, like even on YouTube, like there's a lot of people that are going to Grenada. It's a popular time to go down to the island, you know what I mean. That's why a lot of people go to Grenada it's for Carnival right yep, yep, and what what's?
Speaker 3:what's funny is that there was actually a rivalry between trinidad and grenada, uh, for who had the best carnival? And trinidad has the biggest because they have more people, but grenada has the best carnival in the in the world, in the caribbean, because our music just have a vibe, like it's. It's just a vibe because we really kind of condensed it to the Jab Jab.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love the Jab Jab. I love the Jab Jab. Yes, they've, they've created a culture. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Like the.
Speaker 2:Jab Jab culture, like the social media presence, the amount of work they put into the costume, everything it's taken off.
Speaker 3:And what's funny is that actually started back in the 80s where the band Moss International, when they sang Jabalassi Rule. Let's talk about roots, let's talk about tradition. You know they were the ones that really introduced conch shell. So the poop, poop, poop. You know they were the ones that really introduced that. Dominica picked up on it. They sang what kind of fishy day.
Speaker 3:That was the rhythm of the song, but they had the shell in it too. But Grenada was the one that originally brought the shell and we in the 80s and 90s we had different bands. We had the devils or blue, devil, green. The green devil, or alien Alien, was primarily like Jongle, belmont area, those those areas. They were the, they were the green devils, they were the aliens. Jab Jab was pretty small during the 90s and early 2000s.
Speaker 2:I feel like when I was talking to a colleague of mine about, you know, spice Mask and the origin of Carnival, that I think the one thing that Grenada does that is different is that we stick to the traditional costumes, yeah Right, and the one you like. You said Jab Jab started in the 90s and it's still very popular now and very prolific, but also Shortney.
Speaker 2:Shortney Shortening yeah, like you don't see it a lot in mainstream carnival now, like I remember seeing it as a kid and like, visually speaking, I could still see shortening now because they made an impact they have. You know what I mean. It's the way that it's done and that it's consistently done in Grenada, like they didn't stop doing jab jab. You're talking about the, so hold that thought. So you're talking about a jab jab. And even one of the artists I don't know it wasn't this year that she came out with the song, I think it was last year, but it's called crocus bag yes, and I had to look up what it meant because I was like what's a crock of bag?
Speaker 2:No, no. But I learned through the song what it is. But you know, getting back to what you said with Jab Jab, and you were talking about the culture, right?
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah. So with Jab Jab Short Knee and Short Kneney, it's very much a call and answer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:They would have a leader and the leader would make a call and then the rest of the band would answer. Shortney was very much the noise, so they had the bells, they had the stuff that jingles and they would dance and powder. That's where the term it can't play mass and freight powder come from, because Shortney would always have powder. Shaking powder come from because shortening would always have powder shaken, making this huge cloud, and they used to go through our villages and like, do that chant and stuff? I was afraid of shortening when I was, when I was younger yeah, that's what I was saying.
Speaker 2:It's shortening is scary like I I can relate with that, like as a kid. I still remember because, like, I left grenada when I was young. But if we're talking about Carnival, I remember them and I remember I don't know if it was with my mom or my aunt and I'm holding on because I'm like, because they're coming after me, they come with a partner, like they're there, that's what they're known for scaring you in that way and it's kind of like it's Carnival, but it's kind of like Halloween at the same time, because I was, yeah same time, because I'm like it was yeah, jab jab, like you're scared of jab, jab jab.
Speaker 2:They're not friendly either, I mean like what they represent you know like if we're talking about meaning, but it is so well choreographed, the video, the stop, it's like you said, they're going around like carnival.
Speaker 3:It's all about the lead-up yeah, I mean this week's carn, but yeah, I was big into the lead up, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't even realize how big.
Speaker 3:Jab Jab, jabolassi. Jab Jab is just a shortened version of Jabolassi, and Jabolassi means the devil in molasses. And where that came from is during slavery days, when slavery was abolished and the slaves actually ran through the streets. They covered themselves in molasses to enhance their blackness and they ran through the streets with chains and like machetes, or we call it cutlass. Back home, and when we cover ourselves with oil, it's portraying the same thing. The reason why they cover themselves with molasses is because it was something that affected the slave owners. It was an expensive thing, so it's like we're free, you know, so we're just going to use this thing. And when we cover ourselves with oil, it's for the same reason to enhance our blackness and show that we're strong. We're powerful and we're black. We're proudly black. And the chains is to show that you know, we're done with this, we're no longer in chains. The horn is to show them that you know, you call us devils, but we're proud, despite of the deprivation that you try to put us through. The red food coloring with a smoke, herring in the mouth is just all like to enhance our look. Because they're afraid of us. You know, let's just put it honestly. They were afraid of us. You know, let's just put it honestly, they were afraid of us so they tried everything to belittle us. So now that we were free, we were just trying to enhance our look. They were like oh, you're black, big lips and all that stuff. So the red food coloring is to make our lips look even brighter and the old engine oil is just to make us look even blacker. And grenada is not the only one that does that, but we're the one that does it in such vastness.
Speaker 3:Because in the in the late 90s, amidst all the other devils the blue devil, red devil, green devil jab jab was still small. Jab jab was predominantly in certain areas. Pedmortown, saint david's area was predominantly the Jab-Jab nation of Grenada, to be honest. And then you had the Wild Indian. You had the Veko, which is predominantly in St Mark. It's a craft that is handed down so it's not well known throughout the nation. There's certain craft makers in St Mark that makes Veko. It wasn't until the mid-2000s when Talpree started really promoting Jab-Jab, because before Jab-Jab Topri was big into Wild Indian, big into Wild Indian. And then he came in and he I can't remember Old Woman Alone when he sang Old Woman Alone Old Woman Alone was a Jab-Jab.
Speaker 2:For those that don't know, that song Old Woman Alone Like that is so popular, like how that is so popular, like how are? We taking home? Are we taking home oh?
Speaker 1:man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man.
Speaker 2:Hey this guy, how did you make a song about doo-doo and make it?
Speaker 3:interesting. Just like you know, I'd rather fall in love than oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:And like the music video too. Like you know, it's so catchy, but I was like yeah, big up Slata.
Speaker 3:and X-Bird Big up Slata. Yes, definitely Slata.
Speaker 2:You know, you really went through like I don't know the creative ideas, like that's some of these ideas. You know what I mean. And he's the only one like that is on a garbage truck.
Speaker 3:In one of his I was like really Slata, like I mean, it's different, it is you know what I mean, but that's all part of in Grenada, that's all part of like the jab jab culture. That's all part of like the jab jab culture because it's very, it's very much taken, yeah, and idioms and stuff that we have locally and turning it into a song, you know.
Speaker 2:But do you do you think we're talking about the jab jab culture and how it has just exploded? Exploded over a short period of time. It's, you know, every year just gets bigger and bigger. But do you feel, like you know how they say, like you said, like we're talking about, even like your mom said to you, she doesn't want you to be a Calypsonian because she doesn't want you to. You know, get into that lifestyle, because once you're a music artist, there's a certain thing about in music and the kind of lifestyle you have. So, getting back to the jab, okay, so that's the idea there, and so where I'm going with this is jab jab.
Speaker 2:It's not. It doesn't have a positive message, it's more on the darker side. You believe that there's that hidden message, because we're going back in history with jab jab and how it's known for being associated with the devil, the devil's horn, the devil, like you know, in society today, you know, we have Christians and we do believe in the afterlife, and then there's those that think that the devil is always tempting us to do things that are wrong. And so carnival is, you know, a celebration, but it's also, you know, you've got Jab Jab culture and Jab Jab is, you know, jab Jab is not wearing bright colors. They're not wearing bright colors that symbolize a positive. You know what I mean? It's a bit of both.
Speaker 3:So, like I said, the black is to enhance our black skin and the devil horn is to show them. Yes, you call us devils, but we're going to own it.
Speaker 3:You know, it's like somebody going to growing up and going to school. In GBSS there were three kinds of people. There was people that could dish out the insults, but they could never take it, so they would get angry if you insulted them. There were people that would take the insults, but they could never take it, so they would get angry if you insulted them. There were people that would take the insults, but they could never dish it out because they're not good at rebuttals. And then you had people that could give and take, so you could throw talk for them the entire time and they would just give you and give you and give you.
Speaker 3:What I've learned from that experience is if you insult me and I agree with you I just took away your power, right? So if you call me black and ugly and a devil, right, and I cover myself in old oil and I put a helmet on with devil horns on it, you have no other insult to throw at me, not one, because I just showed you how powerful I am, because you tried to insult me and I'm like well, this is what you said I am and I agree with you. Know what I mean. This is who I am. Yes, I am black and I'm like well, this is what you said I am, and I agree with you. Know what I mean? This is who I am. Yes, I am Black and I'm a devil, so I'm a Wimahant.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like it's in life. You know, we're always, there's always going to be people who are going to provoke you. They're going to try and get in your way. There's always going to be people and you know the Jab Whatever it's known for in history doesn't mean that that's necessarily what they're doing now. But as far as culture is concerned, grenada has left an impact, definitely through Spice Mass, and it's exciting. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's like I haven't been back in a while, but when I went to Grenada years ago, like it's been like over 10 years now. But when I went back, you know just Carnival itself, the respect for the masqueraders and the fact that you know, in North America it doesn't necessarily work the same way. People aren't always letting you perform in costume. You know what I mean. I go on and on, but I'm just saying for me it gave me a different look on how people are supposed to behave during Carnival, like let the people who paid for their costume enjoy themselves, you know. But even still, monday Night Mass, I think out of everything, I was like it's a different thing. I haven't seen it here in Toronto and you know, carabana here in Toronto is a big, like it brings on a lot of people, like a lot of people visit Toronto during that time. But I still feel, like you said, between Trinidad and Grenada, like we're neighbors and we obviously know how to throw a good party.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Monday night I told my wife I was like, if we ever go to visit around Carnival time, Monday Night Mass is like the best introduction to Carnival, because it's more organized, it's like being in a rave kind of, because it's all you know, you have the DJ on the truck telling you like, give instructions, and they have checkpoints throughout the trip. So you start down Grand Lens, by Wall Street, by the Roundabout, and then you go all the way to the Caranage. So it's a long trek, right, but you have drinks, you have the music going, the music pumping, and Monday Night Mass is a night where you could tell as a spectator which song is going to win Roadmatch.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, hands down, it's the most popular song and I'm going to throw my hat in the ring. Yes, who is it? Who are? It's a popular song I want to throw my hat in the ring.
Speaker 2:Yes, who is it? Who are you calling this year?
Speaker 3:The guy's name is Soka ET. I think he's from Cherryville, which is kind of southwestern side, but it's 473 in the west Indies yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I want to say, since we're bigging up everybody, I want to big up Tris. Tris, I hope you're still going to come on the show. Tris is a new artist as well. He's very young and I've been following him and, yeah, he's doing well. So I think, like you said, the music it's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Grenada has a lot of good.
Speaker 2:Grenada yeah, we have a lot of good artists.
Speaker 3:A lot of good producers.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Big producers, yeah, big Up Adigan who's in Canada.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Big Up Sandman, who's been doing his thing.
Speaker 2:Big Up Expert and Carol and Big Up Mr Killer. I hope you know. Yes, he's always very humble and you know those dance moves. They never get old. You know what I mean? That guy is doing everything he's like singing dancing.
Speaker 3:You know the one that actually started the whole. Well, not music video, but like the video introduction for Soka Monark, he's the one that started that. Yeah. For him. You know people would do their little skit and stuff. But no, he did one and after that, like everybody, just started doing it yeah, yeah, film my movie, film, my movie. Yeah, I think that was a song. He started that yeah, big up, big up.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:He songs Saki, is you remember Beast the Calypsonian?
Speaker 2:There's this one artist oh my gosh, he's very young and, yeah, you know the song Six Runs, six Runs, six Runs.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Six Runs yes.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:I mean they're even coming in. Yeah, you know what I mean. So obviously that song came out maybe a year or two ago, but anyways, it was so catchy for me and I'm like what that's a Grenadian Good for him, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but tonight is big and then tomorrow they have the fancy mask. That's why all the Grenadian designers would say their designs and stuff. We just have a ton of creative, innovative people. Man. I'm always proud to see the costumes and stuff that they come out with. My favorite is Old Mass. That's where people like you and I would actually take in it and we would come out with designs ourselves it's very funny, but I would poke fun of the government by the way.
Speaker 3:Like, just by the way, that dress symbolizes something that happened in the government and stuff. So just to kind of put it in perspective, it would be like somebody dressing up like Donald Trump and they have like you know, oh right, right, yes. Yes, it would have, like this placard oh right, right, yes, yes, it would have like this placard.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's like a spectacle. So Grenada has this thing. I don't know exactly what you call it, but it's like a political site, maybe, like I've seen it at Jews, is it the carnival, like the parade itself, or Juve morning? I find Juve morning they do it too. Where the mind my French. But I remember this one political statement where the guy said pussy will kill a man. And my goodness, I shouldn't even be saying that.
Speaker 2:but remember that oh, my gosh, steven, you remember that? Yes, and I asked my aunt I was like auntie joe, how come that's? Why, she's like there's a reason there's a story, there's a story behind that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was actually a guy. It was actually a guy. His nickname was Pussy. No way, yeah, wow, he killed the hornet man. Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, we tell stories and everything, everything, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, look at that. We've just went down the, the, the history, and like just the stories that come up in Carnival, you know, and all the excitement and the memories, because you remember and I left when I was young too but we still remember being scared by short, short knee. If you're hearing this, I'm still scared of you. You know what I mean. I shown Sharni. If you're hearing this, I'm still scared of you. You know what I mean. You know carnival, like you said, the, the mass you were talking about those masks that people make.
Speaker 2:But what's exciting is that I just read this so the underwater sculpture museum, we have the first one that was created in 2006, and kudos to Karakul. You know it's unfortunate, what happened, the hurricane that happened, that just changed the whole. You know the little. The island itself, karakul's like got 10, about probably 10,000 people. But the fact that they're going to be creating a sculpture museum for you know Karakul, and it's amazing. I'm just just like, oh my gosh, caracoo is gonna get, you know, a little underwater haven, it's, you know it's amazing, especially around sandy island, which is has been rated as one of the best northland in the world.
Speaker 2:One of them. Yeah, oh, in the world, wow 100 yeah yeah, yeah, I mean I spoke to the creator. He's amazing. I mean, grenada allowed him to do a lot that he wasn't allowed to do. Like people don't realize that the reef is a living thing.
Speaker 3:And the particles actually would attach to stuff under the water. So having those sculptures placed in that particular location it's in Dragon Bay just by a mauling, there it's enclosed, it's a cove, so it's well protected from any waves, from any natural disaster that happens, and the reef would actually be able to establish itself. I've been snorkeling there. I free dive that area. It's freaky oh is it. Oh, okay, yeah, when you dive underwater and you just go around the tail like this is weird, like why are there sculptures on the hair? This is.
Speaker 2:I should be here.
Speaker 3:It feels weird yeah.
Speaker 2:No, you know what? Because it's different, it's out of the ordinary and because he created Grenada's first underwater world. It kind of led the way to other underwater worlds and you know, I feel like Kervin, you got to come back and we got to talk more, because you are a great mind to talk to and I love your passion for creating stories. And you know, tell me, from when you were a child, do you have a memory that has helped you create this vision? Because I think, for me, I remember why I think I liked radio so much. There's a memory I have, but do you have a memory or something that made you realize that you like creating stories?
Speaker 3:Oh, that that would have to be from like, since I was like a kid, since I could write, I would write stories, I would write.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I used to do a lot of poetry and stuff when I was growing up and fast forward to my teenage years. One of my friends had a Sony camera and it could record video. So we used to every time we went on the beach we used to like record stuff like fight scenes and all that stuff run through the mall and just, you know, be boys. I tell one of my friends all the time, if we knew how big YouTube would have been like, we would have capitalized on that ever since, because we used to make a lot of content and there wasn't really anywhere to put it. Yeah, so I got into music, into writing songs and stuff producing, so I've just been blessed to be around a lot of other creative people. I think that's the one thing I really appreciate about going to GBSS for, because there's just a ton of creative, a lot.
Speaker 2:GBSS. Let me tell you GBSS obviously is a great school. Some great teachers. When did you go there?
Speaker 3:I went there between 96 and 2001. So wow, yeah, yeah, 96 to 2001 96.
Speaker 2:I mean, when I think of 96, a lot had happened in 96. The olympics was in atlanta and donovan bailey you know yeah about anything that was happening outside oh, okay, okay, that, okay, that's where we know we're across the border.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:Kervin yes, kervin is in the USA. You were just talking about how you're like, yeah, have you been across? Have you been here? Have you been to Toronto?
Speaker 3:I haven't been to Canada yet.
Speaker 2:Okay, don't knock it until you try here to can't have you been to toronto. I haven't been to canada. Okay, don't knock it till you try it or don't knock it.
Speaker 3:You know it's ominous I actually have a family in in british columbia, victoria okay, well, that's a little bit away from me, that's on yes, I'm in ontario.
Speaker 2:it's been a pleasure talking to you about Carnival and what you do, so if anyone is looking for you on social media because that's what we're dealing with how can they find you?
Speaker 3:You could just go to my website, wwwtravelingmackocom, and from there you'll find all my social links.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because he knows you like that.
Speaker 3:I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, half of them. I'm teasing you. So what I can say is the Traveling Mako. Did I say it right? I said it wrong. Traveling Mako.
Speaker 2:I can't. Anyways, what we have to say about your brand is that, traveling, you like to travel through people's stories and you like to create a story, and here we are creating a story right now and hopefully, if you are listening, you've learned something about Grenadian culture, because this is not magnation egg nation and I feel that you know the whole point of this show is to help share with you and the rest of the world that we're a spice island, but we're also a community of people that you know. We've done a lot, we've created a lot and we're still going and we're still sharing with the world. You know what I mean. It's it. All it takes is one person and it's it, and it's amazing how humble a lot of Grenadians are. I have to say, like we are a nation in that way, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, awesome, well said.
Speaker 2:Well said, thank you. Thank you for listening to Nutmeg Nation with Carlene Humphrey.
